TOPIC: Lastest NOVAhi Template

Serge, Steven, I would like to kick off the narrative discussion by asking both of you if either of you have experienced the inside of a Superior Court room? I have and it is not a cool place to hang out. If you are an expert in say HVAC, then pull the appears, seems, and serviceables out of you inspections. We are supposed to be generalists, the front line of the defect recognition process. We refer issues that are not our trained profession to the people who are trained. There is nothing wrong with that, and if a client had to call in 5 or 6 different specialists to do an inspection, the cost and time line would be incredible! That is why they need us. I hear that "If you can't tell me what is wrong, why do I need you " CRAP from realtors all the time and I just explained why they need us.

Be there for the client, but CYA CYA CYA. Because if you do not, their lawyer will spank your A.

Steven,

The point with pictures can go either way. More often than not they will save you than protect you. I've talked to way too many inspectors who were brought in and told they missed something that happened after the fact. The point is, you're a good inspector you're going to catch anything serious that might be caught in a photo. But the fact that you can PROVE that something was in good working order during the inspection and the seller or buyer broke it in the time after will save you.

Here's an example. One of our inspectors had taken pictures of a giant stain glass window at an inspection (was part of his room shot like Serge takes). Upon moving in the buyer found the window to be cracked and blamed the inspector for not picking up on it. Replacing the window would have cost a few thousand bucks. The picture he took showed that the window was NOT cracked when he was there. More than likely one of the movers cracked it.

Now lets say that you took the same picture and it was cracked and didn't notice it or point it out in the report. Then it's going to hurt you. That IS possible but more than likely you would have noticed it on site or working on it during your report. Also remember the photos you take are higher resolution than what ends up in the final report. It could be that the cracks not visible in the report photo but is on your copy. Like Drew said CYA.

Another very important point in the current REO market. LOTS of inspectors have been telling about appliances being swapped out after the inspection, or completely stolen. By taking pictures of all of these you're protecting your client.

Look, I just wrote this whole big response and accidently erased it. I am not going through the whole thing again, so here it is, short and sweet.

If you turn on the thermostat and the system comes on, to you say it "appears" to be functional?" or if it doesn't come on it "appears" to not be functional?

What about a light? it appears to come on? or it appears to not come on? the plumbing? a cabinet door? How about the sidewalk? How does it appear? Does it need to be replaced?

Is there anything that you are willing to state if it is or it isn't? WHen you use the word "appear," what is going through your mind? Well, the heating system didn't come on, but I don't want to say that, so I will say that it appeared not to come on. Or if it comes on, do you say that it appears to have come on?

All of your websites say how much of an expert you are. So either shit or get off the pot. And if you are so unsure of yourself that you are not willing to make a direct statement, and have to call in 27 experts to say it for you, then change your websites to say: " I am an expert, but unfortunately, not enough of an expert, nor do I have enough confidance in myself to tell you something for sure."

Yes, Yes, we are generalists. But we are supposed to be expert generalists. We all have different things that brought us to being home inspectors. My reason for becoming a home inspector is because through the years, I have built many things. I have become proficient in many different trades. No, I do not know everything, and can learn something new on any given day. But I have enough confidence in my ability to tell you, "it is broken, get it fixed." or "it worked when tested".

Also, in most cases, my clients are at my inspections. They see how closely I look at things. They see me check every door. Turn on every switch, they see me on  the roof, and most importantly is that I explain every thing I find.

I have also been challanged. I have had the "BIG GUNS" brought in to dispute me... and they tried, but I held their fingers to the fire, and said "really"!!! Now look a little closer, and I pointed out a few things that they missed. By the end of the reinspection, they told their clients, "everything this inspector reported is accurate."

Listen, I'm not saying don't be careful. But there comes a point where you have to put your money where your mouth is, unless, bottom line you are really not as good as you advertise, and this is only a gig to bring you a few bucks, screw the client.

To quote one of the best Home Inspectors I know of, (in the whole world), "If you really want to CYA, you don't do it by writing weak reports, you do it by covering your clients ass."

So, let me ask you this, on average, how manytimes in a report do you say "it appears?" Please go back to your last report, and post them. How many times on average do you rec calling in someone else to check someting to see if it is working or not? Post a few. I am not talking about calling in an expert to repair something. I am talking about calling in an expert to tell if something is broken/operational or not.

But please, lets be honest with each other and with ourselves. Don't write something that sounds good, really really, pull somethings out of your reports. This can be a wonderful learning experience for all of us. Remember, I brought up using less pictures as a CYA precaution. My mind is open... somewhat.

Dominic,

How can I post a report?

On the boards? Click reply, click Additional options, click Choose File next to Attach and find your file.

If you turn on the thermostat and the system comes on, to you say it "appears" to be functional?" or if it doesn't come on it "appears" to not be functional?

What about a light? it appears to come on? or it appears to not come on? the plumbing? a cabinet door? How about the sidewalk? How does it appear? Does it need to be replaced?

Is there anything that you are willing to state if it is or it isn't? WHen you use the word "appear," what is going through your mind? Well, the heating system didn't come on, but I don't want to say that, so I will say that it appeared not to come on. Or if it comes on, do you say that it appears to have come on?

All of your websites say how much of an expert you are. So either shit or get off the pot. And if you are so unsure of yourself that you are not willing to make a direct statement, and have to call in 27 experts to say it for you, then change your websites to say: " I am an expert, but unfortunately, not enough of an expert, nor do I have enough confidance in myself to tell you something for sure."

Yes, Yes, we are generalists. But we are supposed to be expert generalists. We all have different things that brought us to being home inspectors. My reason for becoming a home inspector is because through the years, I have built many things. I have become proficient in many different trades. No, I do not know everything, and can learn something new on any given day. But I have enough confidence in my ability to tell you, "it is broken, get it fixed." or "it worked when tested".

Also, in most cases, my clients are at my inspections. They see how closely I look at things. They see me check every door. Turn on every switch, they see me on  the roof, and most importantly is that I explain every thing I find.

I have also been challanged. I have had the "BIG GUNS" brought in to dispute me... and they tried, but I held their fingers to the fire, and said "really"!!! Now look a little closer, and I pointed out a few things that they missed. By the end of the reinspection, they told their clients, "everything this inspector reported is accurate."

Listen, I'm not saying don't be careful. But there comes a point where you have to put your money where your mouth is, unless, bottom line you are really not as good as you advertise, and this is only a gig to bring you a few bucks, screw the client.

To quote one of the best Home Inspectors I know of, (in the whole world), "If you really want to CYA, you don't do it by writing weak reports, you do it by covering your clients ass."

So, let me ask you this, on average, how manytimes in a report do you say "it appears?" Please go back to your last report, and post them. How many times on average do you rec calling in someone else to check someting to see if it is working or not? Post a few. I am not talking about calling in an expert to repair something. I am talking about calling in an expert to tell if something is broken/operational or not.

But please, lets be honest with each other and with ourselves. Don't write something that sounds good, really really, pull somethings out of your reports. This can be a wonderful learning experience for all of us. Remember, I brought up using less pictures as a CYA precaution. My mind is open... somewhat.

I do not know of anyone who is a home inspector that calls themselves experts at anything. For instance my website says 27 years in the construction industry. It says that I will give them a thorough inspection.

I am betting that ALL of our inspection agreements (even if you use a boilerplate agreement like Nachi's) say that we are generalists and we often refer out to specialists for further evaluation.  If yours doesn't you sir are a brave man, if yours  does then you are sitting on the same pot as all of us. My agreement which was written by my attorney, pretty much renders my reports not worth the paper they are written on in subtle ways. I would have it no other way. This frees me up to go in and service the client without worry that every thing I put down on paper will be challenged.

I am recently recognized by the Burlington County NJ Superior Court as an expert witness on structural issues. My attorney has gotten me involved in this due to my work and education resume. I have witnessed four separate cases with two different attorneys three of which had their a$$es kicked because they did not properly report something. The fourth case was of an inspector who fought of and won against the purchase of a new furnace. He reported that the furnace appeared to be in serviceable condition at the time of the inspection. He also recommended that the system be cleaned and further evaluated by a licensed technician. He never saw the cracked heat exchanger, the client never called in the expert until after carbon monoxide detector that was added later would not shut off.

Oh BTW, I do not advertise on my site that I give expert testimony even though it could be a revenue stream.

The light bulb and the sidewalk examples that you give are apples and oranges comparisons. Let me give you a relevant example: Lets say you are inspecting a roof. The roof looks ok, is complete, but is not new and you know it. You tell your client by word of mouth that the roof looks good, has a few years on it and if I were you I would have it looked at with an invasive inspection by a roofing contractor anyway. You put in your report however, that there were no issues found with the roof giving the client an authoritative comment. Now two weeks, a month, two months, whatever after the client moves in there is a noreaster and three shingles blow off that were not properly nailed down and the rains come pouring in.

Now you could not see or tell that the shingles were not nailed down. You did report (in writing) that the roof was OK. You told your client that they should have an invasive inspection because in your mind something bothered you about the roof. You are not supposed to lift shingles and do an invasive inspection as a roofer may or would.

Now comes the fun part. The clients attorney, who has your report in hand and is now calling it "plaintifs exhibit A" is quoting you narrative and saying you gave this roof a good rating, our expert who removed a few shingles and went into the attic and counted the nailing pattern from the inside saw several areas throughout the roof where this occurs. Could you have seen this, maybe not. Could you have counted the nails in the attic, definitely so. Could you have referred your client to an expert for further evaluation (in writing) based on your suspicion, definitely so. Doing that would have saved you: 1. Lost revenues from inspection during the trial. 2. The legal fees that you exhaled for your defense. 3. A poor referral from the client, the clients attorney and the jury. (these are almost always jury trials) 4. The cost of a new roof and damages inside the home because YOU are paying for that.

To get back to some of your questions, I always recommend getting heating systems, hot water heaters, AC units cleaned and serviced even if they are working fine. The only exception is if it is a relatively new system. You have no idea how the previous owner cared for the system. The systems could have gone to crap for years and a savvy seller with a shop vac in their hand can make a furnace look pretty good in about 15 minutes.

I will stick what my experience tells me, what I was taught in HI school, and what most of us talk about on these boards, refer away to a specialist whatever you cannot be sure of. There is nothing emasculating or shameful about that.

BTW, I have two sites I would like to email you my link info. I will link your sites today.